Date: Mar 28, 2015 02:23 pm Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
Haha oh my god don't read my next story after you get done with kind of like faith. I actually deliberately break one of the things you complain about here lol
but I do agree with all of this. Actually very helpful for me as a writer to see this information in general
MJ-Is-My-Morphine says to read. Hmmm. I'm torn.
Thx for checking this out. Let me know if you have any suggestions for topics here/anything you disagree with.
Date: Mar 13, 2015 08:31 pm Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
MJ-Is-My-Morphine is right in a lot of essences. Really, its anyones prerogative to write exactly as they want, in whatever style they want, whatever subject they want, in whatever ill-grammar that they do so choose, but I really feel like the point has been missed.
There's no one here who has been cast out or individually berated for anything they've done as a writer -- but the point of these tips are to help writers who WISH to IMPROVE along their journey through fiction.
I've seen a lot of people taking shots here and elsewhere about "readers" who critisise and belittle stories without knowing who the reader is, what experience they've had and so forth. @RedOne has been subject to that and it irritates me. In the past I have also been told that I'm just a "reader" so I have no idea what I'm on about -- mind you, without that person knowing that I hold a university degree in writing, editing, and reporting for various different means. I am aware that Red also has something similiar and a LOT of experience, so her opinions in terms of editing, grammar, story format, flow, fluidity of a body of text are completely valid and sometimes, professional.
We all like to read what we like to read. If someone wants to read something incredibly cheesy to the point its hard to even read on through a tiny gap in your fingers, then fine, thats your right ... but I would say that the general audience of readers want either one of two things and I'll be frank;
Michael Jackson smut.
A good solid fictional story with a great plot and the kind of characters that will keep readers hanging on for ever subsequent chapter.
I fall in to the latter catergory myself, personally. I also write stories for the latter category and it is my hope that my readers will continue reading and will leave me honest feed back. I'm a little girl with a strong backbone, I can handle it. I would also like to know if my writing sucks so I can fix things if necessary.
In the same vein as some of the comments; 'if you don't like a story, you don't have to read it', I'll apply it here. If you don't want tips, if you don't care for what a reader thinks of your story, then you don't have to take on board any of Red's tips.
If you feel a bit like tl;dr, then maybe don't bother....
I choose to, I like to read everyone's opinions here because it helps me determine the kind of stories that my audience likes to read and what I should do and what I shouldn't do. My fictions are a work of my own heart, my own views, my feelings and such, but without people reading them and getting that same kick from reading it as I do writing them, then I probably wouldn't bother posting them. There is nothing more delightful than reading honest and warm feedback from my awesome audience.
I grapple with the idea someone would feel like, "Fuck you all, I'll write what I want! I don't care HOW shit it is!"
However, I am a person who always wishes to better herself every single day whether it be in a friggin' fan-fic or if its in every day life... so... I guess that could be just me.
Critisisms & What I Hate:
When things progress way too quickly. A girl is a complete sweetheart and preaches about how she's very 'proper' and does things that would be uncharacteristic for her backstory - i.e jumps in to bed and demands MJ do her anal. No offence, to any girl who thinks she's good but just likes a bit of butthole action, but that's probably something you don't want to do the first time you sleep with someone. ..... Again... just me... *shrugs*
Using expressions that are incredibly disturbing. Now, this is totally my opinion because I'm a little bit prissy when it comes to sex... but an OG telling him, "PLOW MY PUSSY RAW!" makes me want to cry. All I can think about is the tube of canesten or thrush cream she's going to need later..........
Obviously stories are not interesting if everything happens easily and without a single obstacle and if both characters are super perfect, but the amount of obstacles that occur is something that I think about a lot. If I am super invested in to a plot and they keep chucking in an obstacle every time things are going nicely like a fuckin' backyard game of Tough Mudder, then I'm gonna bounce. There's nothing more frustrating than a relationship that's starting to be nice, then Suzy Fuck Me Dukes walks -- the ex ghost from Michael's christmas past and throws a monkey wrench in the whole episode. And then once that bitch has made her stage left exit, the OG's crazy dipshit ex rolls his ass back in and tries to kidnap her and pop a cap in MJ's beautiful behind....
....homer drool..... mmm beautiful behind.
I am pretty shit with grammar. I'm Australian, thats about the short and long of my excuse, we speak very lazily and if you grow up in a more lower class area, then you will struggle with were/was for the rest of your life. Seriously, the struggle is real. I'm not too concerned with it though, that's why writer's have editors. :P
What I do love??
Good spelling. Good plot with plenty of twists and turns but they don't always have to be negative. I do like MJ being a bit of a story hero; because I truly believe that's where his heart was at. I like OG's with personality, not a brain dead bitch who's sole purpose in life is to love, cook and suck MJs ballbag at his every whim. I like head-strong OGs with plausible back stories who aren't crazy but can hold their shit together and not let him get away with too much. OGs who put up with MJs cheating? Fuck that, Michael Jackson or not, send that beautiful behind away.... and enjoy the view......
I love flowing plots where sex scenes are built up and writing less is sometimes more. I don't want to see weird euphemisms for penis and vaginas. Like, "Michael put his sword in to OG bitches moonlight," or "he slipped his man worm in to my womanly garden", Or, "his pork sausage ended up under the hood of my BBQ" you know, stuff like that.
Critisism, Reviews, Comments -- whatever you want to call them, they build you up as a writer, they make you strong and they make you better regardless of how they might sting in the moment. Or, you can be a blockhead and not take it on because you clearly know better.
Its my guess that these posts by Red are inspired by the countless beggers for comments and reviews but the same people who crack the sads when someone offers advice that they don't like. Here the advice is fair, honest and free for the taking.
I LOVE YOUR TIPS RED :)
I'm kinda speechless.
Frankly, I think your break down of two things readers want is rather accurate. Now, I will say that smut can be well written and have a decent plot, so the two aren't mutually exclusive. However, I do agree with the general point of your statement.
I grapple with the idea someone would feel like, "Fuck you all, I'll write what I want! I don't care HOW shit it is!"
^ I do, too.
i.e jumps in to bed and demands MJ do her anal. No offence, to any girl who thinks she's good but just likes a bit of butthole action,
^ I had to c+p that b/c I'm laughing so hard that I'm crying. Well, that and it deserved to be bolded.
Oh, and I believe the image you were imagining looks something like this:
Love your criticisms and loves. I think grammar is a common problem across the US as well. It is very dependent on the quality of one's education, where a person lives, cultural factors, etc. I do believe in using slang and similar languages (e.g. Ebonics) in dialogues and thoughts. I'm not as sold on using it in describing the scene.
Date: Mar 12, 2015 07:44 am Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
About the cussing I consider classless or limited vocabulary I am not by any means referring to those who only do it on rare occasions e.g. if upset, pissed off (although it's another story if they're always angry), dumbfounded or if they stubbed their toe and it's very painful..I was mostly meaning those who do it for no good reason at all..i.e, evey word or every other word they say is a cuss word and can't go without it then it's easy to think those words are all they know. in that instance I am majorly turned off, for I consider it very vulgar, improper and unnecessary..I guess you could say I'm somewhat of a prude when it comes to that..although when it comes to someone who very rarely swears and it slips out I merely ask what's up since it would be unusual to hear them express themselves in that manner so it must be major..and I especially hate it when grownups cuss out their children(especially young children) and expect them not to say it at any point.. I mean hello, monkey see, monkey do so be a good example.
another thing that makes me cringe is when certain members of Michael's family, like Jermaine is portrayed as a villain and Michael hates him..I mean sure they had their differences like any family would but flat out hatred? NO
Some people live in swear words, despite being intelligent. I think the question that wasn't answered in the affirmative (and underlies your point) is: did the author make a good case for why the character does this? If they did, that wouldn't be a gripe. Sometimes an author makes a great case for it (e.g. Michael's use of slang in Gangsta Lovin'). It is also used as a tool to differentiate Michael and Semaj. Now, if all the characters swear like crazy, have the same slang, and same speech patterns, the profanity and dialogue become more disconcerting.
Agreed - hatred is strong. Resentment or bitterness = fine. Hate is too much.
Date: Mar 12, 2015 06:49 am Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
A few more things to add...
In regards to people using explitives in leiu of not really being able to find the right words, has not so much to do with class. Many a well educated people lean on explitives to express themselves and for both levels it has to do with heightened emotions.
For people who would be deemed classless when they say 'Fuck that' for instance. It's exactly what they mean.
I do get both the points though (settings and purpose applies to deem word choice appropriate) just had to throw that in there.
As for unfocused authors they can come two fold...
1)The author that has a Bazillion stories going at once. Not one of them more than 5 chapters.
2)A story that resembles a prolonged episode of Family Guy... One too many cut away scenes that have minimal to do with the main focus or lack there of of the chapter.
To add to peeves...
Full out paragraphs discussing a person place, thing or situation but using different words.
It was so cold outside we had to don jackets. The blistering cold most definitely called for cover up. It was a good thing we had the jackets too because we would be freezing. I'm sure you catch my drift. lol.
As an author of MJFF I realize I'm neither getting graded for my efforts nor am I getting monetary compensation for them either but I like to know I'm giving the people who are reading my story an enjoyable experience. Something they can get caught up in and love. This is why this thread means a lot. It's a tool. Some my choose to use it others if they find it unnecessary can skip it.
I can say more than 50% of the faux pas listed in each chapter I have been guilty of. Do I feel put down as an author for them being pointed out or taking note of them myself? No I feel empowered as to how I can better my writing. I also get to see in this thread why some people don't take to the stories I write. That too is an eye opener for a writer. And for writers who want reviews and who doesn't it would make sense as to wanting to know what readers look for in a story. Even if it's JUST Fan fiction. I've seen many a story on here that have very little reads or reviews and have been going for years. Why is that? It has to make the author think. Also I've seen many ask for critiques of their work to better their writing. Where does one go for that? Right here. Solutions to common and not so common mistakes in writing are being offered up not just critiques and pointing stuff out. So for anyone who feels this thread is being harsh I would take stock of how many writers have expressed in here how much this has helped them. Plus it gives us a dialogue!
Looking forward to more. <333
I'm confused. Are you agreeing with what I said, or disagreeing? (re: profanity)
Agreed re:unfocused. It's hard to maintain a set when you have so many sets going on. That's why 'multitasking' isn't real. It's really just a person rapidly shifting attention. The problem is, it's not possible to give adequate attentional focus to any one thing if you are constantly switching attention. That's how a person ends up with chapters in which the list the wrong character's name or post the wrong scene. Or like you said - random cut-aways.
As an author of MJFF I realize I'm neither getting graded for my efforts nor am I getting monetary compensation for them either but I like to know I'm giving the people who are reading my story an enjoyable experience.
^ THIS! I feel the same way about this segment. I'm not getting compensated nor am I getting a publication to add to my CV. However, I feel that it is important that I really think, process, and refine my thoughts before posting. Similarly, as a reader, I appreciate when an author does the same thing.
I look at my old writings and see similar faux pas. Like you, I take pride in my growth and inspired to make different changes. I'd be lying if I said that I feel entirely confident in my writing each time I compose a document. Hundreds of documents later, I'm still trying to improve upon my template.
I wish I saw more authors asking for critiques and actually wanting them. Thx girl! <3
Date: Mar 11, 2015 07:30 pm Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
I pretty much think you've mentioned all of them especially the words. My most cringe worthy ones are mixing their with there.
"Michael and Tina got up from the table after paying there bill."
I cringe every time. Probably my biggest pet peeve that you didn't mention was when the story is written in first person and the OG feels the need to introduce herself.
Oh, I forgot to introduce myself. My name is Michelle Joann Jones. I am 19 years old. I'm 5'5, light skinned with a coke bottle figure. I have black wavy hair that goes down to my butt and hazel eyes. I'm mixed with white, Indian and mexican and I go to UCLA.
Ugh!! I was reading a story on wattpad last night that I thought might be good. The first paragraph was good but then the main character started introducing herself and I stopped reading immediately.
I don't get why writers do this. I never want to be introduced to the main character. I like to figure her out for myself. To me there is nothing to learn about the OG when you just flat out introduce her like that. And the physical descriptions are just unrealistic and unnecessary. Plus, if the story is in first person and most of the OG's thoughts are contained in her head, why is she introducing herself to herself???
I feel stabby everytime I see the wrong their/there usage.
I agree. When the OG/Michael are suddenly aware that they are trapped inside a narrative, it's disconcerting. Especially if they alternate between not being aware and being aware. I think that this can be done a lot easier in plays, movies, or tv shows, but it is a lot harder to do this in a story. It usually reads as the author breaking scene/character.
I agree with everything you wrote. This is definitely getting added to the next segment.
Date: Mar 11, 2015 04:14 am Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
Lose/loose and they're/their/there are nothing compared to native speakers writing about tying someone's risks (wrists!) or putting an arm around someone's waste (waist!). Unfortunately, I didn't make these up. -.-
I think I have a pretty clear picture of what I like and when I've found a story that engages me, I can look past almost anything.
For example, there was a story I read that took place in 1993. Chandler's accusations was a subplot. The author went as far as describing a trial and a verdict when there were none in RL, but it didn't bother me the least. It added so much to the story and without it, the story would've fallen flat in my eyes.
I cringe when the OG is simply a token and not a person. When she's a good-for-nothing wallflower and Michael decides she's the object he wants to have and she just goes with the flow without any opinions of her own. And when someone is trying to get back at Michael, they use his "prized possession" as a way to get to him.
I can understand why stories like these are written, but from a reader's perspective, read one, you've read them all.
If there's an OG, make her worth Michael's time and effort, otherwise she's just extra weight.
And like someone else said, I hate "petty breakups".
I like when actual people from MJ's life are introduced, but cringe when they're just fillers or always the villains. Or when MJ's kids are very bratty or people like Liz Taylor are extremely pushy and overly caring and don't give Michael any room to breathe. I like when, in some stories, they show Joseph's more ... humane side. I mean, not change his personality completely, but he isn't Jossif Stalin either.
It's more enjoyable to me when I already know the people - I already know what they look like and what they sound like and it also adds a touch of realism. It saves me from the trouble of having to memorize a character encyclopedia when somewhere along the story, I'm gonna get the OG's brothers and exes mixed up anyway. :D
As a side note, I like H/C. But the problem with authors using the same old scenarious is that I've become kind of desensitized or they're only touching the surface.
Hi :) I was actually thinking of writings by native English speakers when I wrote those words. It's such a common mistake. Sometimes I wonder how many people dictate their stories. For instance, when I read, "Can I have an order graph", I know that they meant "Can I have an autograph", because it sounds very similar.
The Stepford OG? LOL. I agree. That's a common one....I'm thinking that could fall under the 'damsel in distress' or the 'perfect OG'? Though, I suppose that subplot is a cliche in its own right.
I can understand why stories like these are written, but from a reader's perspective, read one, you've read them all.
^--YES! Well said.
I hadn't thought about the known-characters aspect. That's an excellent point. It does make it easier to remember who they are, even when there are a ton of them and we don't need a ton of description of the person or a picture.
LOL. You said it been there; it was awkward.
H/C....agreed. I feel like a lot of people are afraid of going beneath the surface.
Date: Mar 10, 2015 03:16 pm Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
I can read nearly any plot as long as the writing is coherent. I actually lol'd at your list of misused words. There's a difference between simple errors because you're typing crazy fast and your eyes just don't catch it in the proofread...and literally not knowing how to write.
I definitely, definitely hate when the OG/Michael is the actual bad guy of the story, but the author clearly doesn't intend it to be written that way. Threads that have Michael being crazy controlling are fine if that's the intention, but I genuinely think that there are young (and maybe not so young) writers that really think that this is the way a guy should treat his s/o. Ditto for the OG being off the wall jealous about every little thing. That's the shit that destroys relationships within months IRL...
I'm not a fan of pregnancy storylines unless they end in miscarriage (a. that's a sentence I never thought I'd say and b. I realize miscarriages are yet another example of a cliché, but hey, it's better than Michael having random kids in a non-AU story!)
Not a fan of OG's that give up their entire life to be with Michael without this being a point of struggle. Again, if this is intentional that's one thing and can make for some really interesting reprecussions...but if it's literally just the way the story is, I nope out pretty fast.
This one's probably totally just a matter of personal opinion/beliefs, but I always roll my eyes when the OG's a virgin or, worse, Michael's a virgin. Unless it's like an OTW fic and they're both teenagers/early 20s, I don't really find that plausible on the OG's part and just flat out wrong on Michael's part. I don't really understand the romanticization of virginty in the first place, but that's a whole other topic of discussion for me.
^^TL;DR would be that I don't like when virginity is a centerpiece of a story, lol.
It's worth saying that most clichés are really just bastardizations of comon archetypes in writing, so really, most of them can be pulled off well if the author is aware of their nature and handles them with careful delibration.
Now to go consider and weed out the clichés in my own story....^_^
I'm a total snob when it comes to loose/lose. Enough typos, though, and I'm out. It's hard when I have to keep rereading to try and figure out what the author meant to say. It disrupts the flow. A few per chapter? Suuuure. I'm down. A few dozen? I just get confused.
I totally agree about people writing him in a way that they don't realize is abusive. That in and of itself concerns me. Domestic violence and abuse of all kinds are way too prevalent.
LOOOOOL That's also a sentence I never thought I'd agree with.
I like to think that Michael would be encouraging of the OG having her own life. I mean, he was encouraging LiMP to record an album...
What don't you like about the virginity aspect? What makes it unrealistic to you? I could see it being unrealistic if Michael is canon and in his 30s. It all depends on the back story, for me.
Totally agree. If an author can add a twist to a cliche, approach it from a different perspective, and/or has the necessary writing chops, the cliche doesn't necessarily have to result in a cringe-worthy moment.
LOL. Care to share any?
Date: Mar 10, 2015 02:34 pm Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
Girl you have a right to an opinion so its cool, but honestly no one is really being overly critical. And majority of the time we're criticizing our own works. This entire topic is pretty much a helpful guide to not add to the long list of cliches and or the rolling of the eye stories. We were all readers before we became writers so we know what we prefer and we speak on the things that make us stop reading. Its not like we're directly bashing authors or trying to pry them from their orginality.
Redone isn't saying "research or your story will be a load of crap" or if you don't do this, that, and the third then don't write at all. She isn't saying that. She's actually trying to help beginners. Sure, you can add flavor to your story but in some instances we've all made the mistake of writing a story that was down right unbelievable and that we shouldn't write it. I honestly wish she had made something years ago to help with me! All the dont's she suggested we stay away from I DID and reading over my stories I won't lie, its crap.
But anyway, this topic isn't for writers to take away or minimize their creativity. Its for authors to grow in their writing to expand to a wider audience (if thats what they chose). And honestly if some people just don't like this topic then the don't have to contribute to it or change their writing. If they are content with the way they write then they should skip right over this. All I'm saying is the people who have commented on these 20+ chapters MAJORITY of us have criticized our OWN writing. And we have also mentioned what makes us tick. Nothing wrong with that. We're just being honest.
And also you say these stories are for entertainment... well let me ask you something... when you go to the movies to see a movie that looks good on trailer and you watch it but throughout the entire movie you're like what in the world?!, come on now!, ugh why did they even put that in there?, ect. In the end you end up disliking the movie.
I feel its the same way with reading a fanfic. You want to read something that will keep you interested, on your toes, and wanting more. Just like you watching your favorite movie. You wouldn't want something boring or previously done. You want something fresh, something good.
Redone is helping with that, and I applaud her and appreciate it.
But you have your opinion , this is just mine.
Thanks, Brandy. You've said everything I wanted to say. I hope Coco reads your comment and thinks about it. I would be interested to hear specifically when/where she thinks I'm missing the boat.
Date: Mar 10, 2015 02:04 pm Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
I know some of you are probably going to despise me for saying this but I am going to say what's on my mind... Don't you think you all are being too hardcore with your critiques with of MJ fan fictions? You do realized they are not PhD dissertations. Yes, there are some fan fictions are a bit ridiculous and some "authors" shouldn't be allowed to write them in first place.. But in my honest opinions some of you are getting way too techical with your critiques. Let's not lose sight of the fact they are simply fan fictions and their sole purpose is to entertain. Nothing else!!! I am all for a well written , captivating story about Michael. The MJ fan fictions have provided me with a great deal of confort and enables me to cope with Michael's death. I love the drama, scandal, lust, sex, and romance in the stories. There are few authors who capture the true essence of Michael in their stories. Yes , Michael was human and had his flaws. But he was a bloody extraordinary being who possessed a magical and captivating aura. I have been blessed to witness and experience Michael's dynamic energy in person on several occasions.. I have met him twice and seen him in person eight times. So let's not forget and lose sight of the true purpose of an MJ fan fiction. I do not read a story with a fine tooth comb either. Research is good yes, and died add some realism to a story. Especially researching about Michael and the events in his life. However, please allow the author to have some creative freedom with their story. I am going to end here , but I felt the need to share my opinions based upon comments and reviews I have seen here..
I think you need to read my responses a little more. No one is saying a story is horrible b/c it has cringe moments/tons of cliches. In fact, I like a ton of stories with those moments/cliches. At the same time, avoiding or reworking those cliches can make for a stronger story. The goal in me writing this is not to be a bitch. The goals are to support those authors who are interested in developing their skills and writing styles, provide feedback on potential missteps that could be hurting them in attaining reviewers, and provide a place to vent (note: this isn't exhaustive. I'm just writing this off the top of my head).
No one is trying to restrict anyone's creative freedom or ...sorry, I'm not sure what your exact point was about the "true purpose of MJ fan fiction" (edited). The point is to do what Michael loved to do - help artists become better at their craft. Engage with each other and share in our love of Michael. No one is saying not to post a story.
Date: Mar 10, 2015 12:08 pm Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
Wow where to start lol. These are very valid cringe moments. The point about time skips definitely can be applied to the surrogate and I'll try to include more flashbacks and I'm also going to start time stamping like I do in The Caged Passion. One thing that makes me confused is when a story is kind of in its own time bubble. like is it spring time? Is it fall? does the OG have a birthday? what about the holidays. The Roommate needs to get on a time schedule too.
Since you all basically called out everything I can think of in other fanfics, I'll share what makes me cringe when I go back and read my own...
- Crazy stalker ex in Guilty until Proven innocent. I wish I would have stuck to it being a serious story about Michael dealing with the allegations making the boys family being the enemy. Leaving Lisa out of it. Keith had enough of his own personal reasons to attack Michael I didn't need that extra conflict. I was just reading other stories at the time and felt like the path I was going down was too boring and had to "spice it up". Wrong!
- Time bubbles in surrogate and roommate. Nobody even knows what year it is!
- The Caged Passion Michael is unrealistically getting away with hanging out at Vivian's bar. It makes me wish I would have made them meet a different way... In a small town like that people would be all over the "new guy" and his cover would be blown immediately. Nothing I can do about this now. So put on your this is fiction glasses and just accept it! Lol just playing. I might need to work in a scene where he suffers some consequences.
- Michael kissing Nina in like chapter 5 of the surrogate. That was so out of character and out of line... Terrible timing their first kiss should have been different...
LOL. Well, just so you are clear as to the specifics of this time bubble: it's currently Sprinter, it's thourty o'clock, and this OG's birthday is on the 37th of Janprilember. My bubble, my rules :P
- I think more authors than not get the urge to "spice it up" and then are left trying to figure out where they ended up and how they got there.
- I remember trying to figure that out with the Surrogate. It was right after the Bad Tour, so '90ish? Only Michael thinks he's in his late 30s and hangs out with people he hung out with in his 40s. Right?
- True about the small town...unless it's a small town that people commonly stop at on their way to Vegas. Plus, if everyone is truly wasted......
- I think that was during the fireworks? She was so confused. He was so desparate. Le sigh. And see, after all of these cliches, I still love that story.
Date: Mar 10, 2015 08:58 am Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
I just realized how much of a hypocrite I am. Everything I named I did in WYWTOM... I thank God that I have advanced in my writing style. If I hadn't I don't know if I would have ANY reads other than myself. And about the miscommunication the way you explain it I can understand, but the way I was thinking when I wrote that example is different, right now I'm on my phone but when I get home I'll write you up an example and show you what I meant. Believe me its annoying and do my younger fanfiction days I've seen it done countless times.
About the reviews: I've grown to not care about them anymore. Yes I like them and I love to get them but I'm glad to have but they don't have to come in large bundles. I'm okay with 3-5 per chapter. I know the worth of my work but I'm really writing to perfect my craft, but its nice to know I have readers/reviewers. Anywho, I'm okay with posting a 11,000+ words chapter and only getting 5 reviews.
I'm grateful for my 5, lmao. When i first wrote a story here i started with 3 or less reviewers each chapter! Haha.
They wouldn't be cliches unless people did them. I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes the cliches work. When a person bothers to try a new take on an otherwise played concept, it can be refreshing. If you don't think that you did that, then oh well. It gave you a place to start in the MJ fanfic world. Also, I bet you were still writing at a level of quality that far exceeds your peers. Shoot, I wish more 20 somethings would practice their writing skills like you do.
3-5 is a good amount of reviews. I wish more people reviewed. Shoot, I wish that people couldn't read beyond the first chapter unless they joined MJF. Or as an author you could see how many people are giving you stars but not leaving reviews. It's tough, because often people seem to all post stories at the same time. It goes back to my hope that people are posting stories b/c they want to become better authors, they want to share their love for MJ with other fans, and they want to remember MJ. Not because X people review their fic.
Date: Mar 10, 2015 07:37 am Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
Oh and dows 1,000 words or less count? That bothers me to no end.
Also I wanted to ask if you thought 11,000+ words was too much . I kinda when overboard on the Gangsta Lovin' update haha .
Yes. You are less picky than I am...less than 2000 words (or 5 pages, single spaced) and I'm a little iffy. I know, beggars can't be choosers, but as a reader, who feels satisfied by reading 5 pages of a story?
I don't think it is too much, however I do think that it'll be a lot harder for you to feel satisfied by the ratio of reviews you got compared to the effort you put in.
Date: Mar 10, 2015 07:24 am Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
Okay so you pointed out some very good points some of them I was staring at my phone like YESSS. When you got to the common within text problems I was more than happy! The common mistakes I see are the infamous there, they’re, and their. I see that happen so often it’s ridiculous. I know, I know people are going to make mistakes because I do it too, but I would hope they at least once-over their chapter at least ONCE. No, you’re not going to catch all the mistakes the first time but you may catch a few, especially those 3T mistakes above ^^^.
As you know from my stories I like a pretty banner but a simple straight to the point summary. I try not to go overboard with the summaries. Gangsta Lovin’ is only like two sentences I think, lol.
I feel like if you want to give some background information for your story before you write the first chapter you should just do a simple summary and then a background chapter before your first official one. That way you don’t have a long drawn-out summary that takes up a half of the recent page.
- THE DYSFUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP. When the OG or Michael cheat and they forgive each other easily. This doesn’t make me say “aww they’re such a strong couple” it makes me ask “why in the heck did he/she forgive them?! They were downright dirty.” It is worse when they consistently do it and the other person remains forgiving. This only works if you’re trying to build a dysfunctional relationship, but if you want your readers to continue loving them as a couple then stay clear of that.
- THE SUDDENLY VICIOUS PARTNER. Another is when in the beginning the OG is in a relationship with someone else whether it’s her boyfriend, fiancée, or even husband… In the beginning the husbands typically start off loving/caring and the OG and him are all for each other. They’re deeply in love… then the OG meets Michael and all of a sudden the OG’s partner is a conniving abusive cheating bastard… I never really liked that.
- THE PETTY BREAK UP. When the OG and Michael break up over something petty. “Did you call me stupid?! Really? Fine! We’re over! Done!” Especially if there haven’t been any problems in the relationship to build up to a separation, because in the chapter before they were all lovey-dovey and ready to marry each other and make babies like… pffft.
- THE RIDICULOUS CHANGE. When the OG changes herself completely to get with Michael. I dislike when it’s a nerd and jock story and the OG just completes changes herself from who she truly is and then later on gets mad in the story and claims that Michael doesn’t truly like her for who she is. Well FYI you were never acting like yourself!
- THE COMA/AMNESIA SHOCK. The OG falls into a coma, wakes up two days later (in the same chapter) doesn’t remember anything. A chapter or two later she remembers everything under the sun and her and Michael are to be married in the next five chapters… come on now…
- THE BIG MISUNDERSTANDING. When the OG overhears Michael talking to his ex or a girl who wants him but doesn’t stay for the whole conversation or magically comes in where it sounds like Michael is just trying to play the OG. She doesn’t try to even ask him about it, she just blows him off and breaks up with him.
- THE KISS. The OG walks in right as another woman is forcing her lips on Michael’s. Again like the above she doesn’t hear him out and distances herself from him or breaks it off completely and then she mopes around screaming how much she is hurt and blah blah blah.
That’s all I have!
They're/their/there is the equivalent to you're/your, we're/where, then/than, and two/to/too. They are all far too common.
Agreed re: the summary. The summary should be more of a teaser than anything. If I can guess the beginning, middle, and end simply by reading the summary, it is too much.
1. Love it. The Codependent Couple. Totally stealing that.
2. The Convenient de-coupling. Good point. I don't think I see that one very often, though.
3. LOL. Unless they're early adolescents.
4. This bugs me in text and in real life. When the nerdy tomboy who doesn't care about makeup is suddenly constantly shopping, always made up, and ditsy. Especially when Michael liked the nerdy tomboy as she was.....
5. Retrograde amnesia is a serious issue....but exes coming back and pretending they never broke up? Not so much. I agree, though, the number of people who fall into comas in FF, books, tv shows, and movies is ridiculous.
6. I'm on the fence with this one. Miscommunication is SUCH a common problem in every day life. When emotions are high and insecurities are high, a person is much less likely to perceive information accurately.
Very well done. Thanks!
Date: Mar 10, 2015 06:10 am Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
Lol. The first note I left with one of my stories here is that I and TypOs are one! I reread my stories quite a few times before posting trying to catch any of the faux pas you stated. This is why people in the writing Biz need editors. I can't count how many times I've reread a story only to find I wrote he instead of she or to instead of too etc... It's crazy how the mind misses all those things because the word fits in my mind so it doesn't click it's being wrongly used at the moment cause I'm reading it as I have it in my head. But I try to go back days or weeks later to see if I have had any of those moments and there has been plenty. Lol.
1)The damsel in distress or Michael in distress. I get that as humans we can be fagile beings and sometimes need a little help to get through tough times in our lives however falling apart at the drop of a hat to convey sensitivity is wack to me. Being sensitive does not equal weakness just as strength does not equal brutish behaviour. Hell sometimes sensitivity portrays strength.
2)The Michael who floats on a cloud above us all and lacks human characteristics. As if him having lists of people he disliked, cusing like a sailer(something his Ex said he did) or being competitive makes him any less of a spectacular human being. Pigeon holding him as a saint does him grave disservice. It's like taking OOC in the opposite direction. KerenOliverio (sorry if I miss spelled) stated that cursing a lot is a show of classlessness. That's a huge misconception in my book. I curse all the time and it does not quantify me as having limited vocabulary in the least bit. Quite the contrary in fact. Elizabeth Taylor we can all agree was the epitome of class but she cursed like a sailor as well. Side note to this: using urban vernacular to talk and relate casually to people doesn't equal being uneducated. This is another misconception.
3)Big ass banners or pictures that skew the pages.
4)When the facts in the story are inconsistent and go from right to left from one chater to the next.
I knew this would be an epic post. You had nothing to worry about at all. Just putting out there what most of us think anyway. I bet you edited out some good stuff. I'm looking forward to part 2. With your musings coming from a readers point of view this should be gold to authors on here.
More soon!! <333
I 100% agree. It's a PITA to edit one's own work (and I will admit that I've been failing at rereading my last several updates in their entirety). Give me another person's work and I will e.d.i.t. that piece. But my own? I will....sorta. My mind fills in the errors unless I read it outloud.
1. That's gotten nods from both you and Kunda. It's going in.
2. St. Lightening. I think that both you and Keren are correct. Cursing can be a sign of low class. It's often done when a person lacks the vocabulary to adequately express their emotions/sentiments. I'd argue that that is more often the case than the one you describe. At the same time, cursing is also very prevalent in certain cultures, in which case the encouragement and normalization of it does not equate to a lack of intelligence. I curse a lot, depending on who I am talking to and the context of the situation. Like you alluded to, ebonics isn't an indication of a lack of education, it's a language in it's own right.
3. Hell yes!
4. Yes. I've gotten bitched out for pointing that out a time or two. I don't know whether to side eye the person or apologize. I usually chose to side-eye....
especially if the character suddenly changes education level, geographic location, age, or history.
5. Could you please be more specific? That could be a topic in and of itself.
Gracias :) I did edit out a lot. I'm trying to stay mindful that I'm a reader and not an author on here. I don't know it all and I don't mean to convey that I do. I also don't write simply from the top of my head. Each segment is a mix of my opinion, a review of what others have said on the topic, and observation.
Date: Mar 10, 2015 04:08 am Title: When the Dog Bites. When the Bee Stings
quite a list there. with the grammar thing, I'm a perfectionist there so there are moments where I would cringe and even be mad at myself for spelling something wrong..but I do let some spelling mistakes slide like if the author has a learning disability and they try their hardest to get beta to aide them or something..I basically let it slide once I understand what they were trying to convey in the chapter..
I will admit I am rather picky..if something bugs me too much I just don't read it or I stop reading if I had started..here is my list:
1.during an argument with Michael the OG acts her shoe size instead of her age
2.lack of research (especially if it's something that could be easily be looked up via Google)
3. overeggageration of Michael's flaws, for example there being a heavy emphasis on them that it makes Michael have no redeeming traits..like thinking just because he cussed sometimes when the occasion called for it, taking it to mean he did it all the time so it looks like he has limited vocabulary or has no class
4.Michael doing things totally against his character without explanation/logical reason(unless it's a parody or spoof)
5.Paris, Prince and Blanket being portrayed as bratty without explanation when Mr. Mesereau has said how well mannered they are.true, the two oldest has had their issues in their teen years but having them be Arviso-esque as a small child? really?
6. love triangles..started to hate them when they become the same thing over and over (Michael and OG are dating, an ex comes there and starts being jealous and Michael ends up cheating on one with the other until forced to choose)
7.Character bashing. This should probably number 1 on the list. I was taught when I first started writing how imperative it is to be careful how treating non-favorite characters. (unless doing a fic where one can get away with breaking the rule). I have especially grown weary of the Lisa being a villainess in fics. I mean I can read if it's written in a believable way and if something happens to make her show her better side but being one dimensional formula has started to get a bit old and cliche..I get she has major issues and serious flaws but flat out evil? no.. she has strong points as well as weak points. also when I consider there are much worse people Michael had dealings with, and Madonna wasn't any nicer and I don't see her being used..who knows..maybe it's because I looked at both sides whilst reading about the details of the marriage revealed (on Vindicate Michael blog) or maybe because I made the decision to forgive or at least not be comsumed by the grudge. long story short I believe there should be balance with not so great characters just as there should be balance with awesome characters or else leave them be.
other than these, I am generally "so be it, as long as the fic is well-written" when it comes to stories.
2. LOL I decided to go easy on that one. I'm realizing more and more the difference between being trained in research and not, makes. Practice makes this easier and quicker. While I don't mean for that to be an excuse, I can see why some people avoid it....I mean, if you are counting seconds and perceive doing research/checking the quality of your sources as cumbersome, the chances of someone actually doing it decrease.
3. Agreed. I see the same happen with people extending the fact that he pursued one married woman to assume he had no respect for the sanctity of marriage and no problem jumping screwing random women.
5. Agreed. My understanding is that Paris was very nice to fans, they were very well-behaved in general, and Michael took a lot of pride in their behavior.
6. You just listed a few things that I can't stand. The cheating behavior, the ex, and Michael even entertaining the ex.
7. Agreed. Everyone has a story. Sometimes it's harder to uncover those stories, and sometimes part of it is an inborn characteristic (e.g.**deleted explanation b/c it's irrelevant**), but 9.8 times out of 10, there is a story. Like you mentioned - there are multiple sides to each of those stories. Given the information I've read, heard, and learned, I'm not a fan of LiMP. I also don't think she's ...just as I think that Michael's way of dealing with conflict ultimately bit him in the ass on many occassions. Was he still an incredible human being? Yes.
Thanks for the ideas!