Date: Feb 17, 2015 07:43 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
The name of the story is Billie Jean.. Umm I don't think Michael is 17 years old in this story...
checked it out - he's 24. She made the teaser vague. As it is, for all she's written the girl could be delusional.
Date: Feb 17, 2015 02:10 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
I've hardly ever read a story where Michael didn't get the girl. Maybe for a short time it seemed like he wouldn't but in the end he always came out on top. I only find myself upset when Michael is deserving of the girl and simply doesn't end up with her. Sometimes he isn't but still ends up with her. Another thing I find very annoying as regards to Michael getting the girl is when the main girl is dating and or is married to a really nice guy and he ends up getting dumped and replaced with Michael. It's like a slap in the face to him because he really loved the main girl or really cared for her and she's just like "Michael's better looking. Michael's more fun. Michael's better in bed. I don't love you anymore because you're not Michael." And 9 times out of 10 Michael doesn't treat her any better than the other guy did. It's like Michael ALWAYS has to win.
I'm glad you said that it was a healthier choice for the OG. 99.9% of the readers are so concerned with Michael's happiness that they could give two hoots about whether the OG is happy.
Unhealthy relationships and/or being brought up to tolerate that type of treatment is a very reasonable explanation for that reader's response. For the other readers, I think it was age. I also posted the story on Wattpad and on their you are able to see the age demographics of your readers and a large portion of them were under 18. With that being said they are young impressionable youth who may have been taught how a woman should be treated and are just turning a blind eye because Michael is involved or may not have been at all.
I personally think it's unfair to hold someone up to such high standards but I guess those are the consequences of constantly being in the public eye. I think he number one thing Michael wanted to acknowledged as was human.
It's rare, but it happens. Usually, at the latest, in the sequel ;)
I think the problem is that sometimes authors don't keep track of the amount of drama they add to their stories, are so intent on making their story *different* than the rest, and/or make the fatal error of making a supportive character too likeable.
It's often the healthier choice. I think one of the worst scenarios that also appears to be very common, is the scenario in which Michael is getting head from one girl and *imagining* the OG. Somehow that is supposed to make it better....
Age is a huge factor.
Date: Feb 16, 2015 05:08 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
Sorry aboiut the double post but you ever read this article on Vindicate Michael? It explains how Michael got hooked on Demerol and other pain meds in the first place..you'll have to scroll down some though:
Yes, I have. Np :)
Date: Feb 16, 2015 09:23 am Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
Yeah I remember hearing about how Jermaine said if he became a vegetarian that would help his acne and he also did it to lose weight..as for why he came off of it to an extent I would say either he missed the sushi, fried chicken and the like or a doctor told him it made him too skinny even for a dancer.
have always been very cautious about where I get info from since a lot of people like to throw him under the bus for money
Now this article has left me feeling kind of torn as I had initially portrayed him as someone who was imperfect but strive for perfection since he was a perfectionist after all and who tried not to be the stereotypical celeb and was somewhat of a better person than I can be at times..not perfect but not the monster the media and haters say..I did hear of him doing it in a soda can and if I had him drink it would probably be on those far and few between days like for New Years celebrations at his home or something..and I like to think he wasn't as bad as country singer Keith Whitley (who died of alcohol poisoning and had a real drinking problem) and didn't do it if he had to drive somewhere..wonderfultonight has hit the nail on the coffin when she mentioned how every time you think you know about Michael something else comes up..but would it be wrong if I kept my portayal? or alter it a bit?
Given his rigid eating habits when dieting, I could see him following an unbalanced vegeterian diet that only made him weaker.
Alcohol - I'm not saying that he was in late stage alcoholism. Not in the least. Just that at sometimes he started drinking earlier than is socially accepted in the US, and at others he passed out on the floor in Gibbs' house.
I don't know enough about how you are portraying Michael to really say anything of value. I DO think he always strived to be better in some way.
Date: Feb 16, 2015 06:45 am Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
Michael, Michael, Michael...
Writing made-up stories about real people is hard. It's even harder when they're someone as ridiculously complicated as MJ. It's exactly like you said--pretty much everything he didn't do at one time in his life, he did do at another. He often contradicted himself and honestly, there's probably a lot of stuff that we can take to be true about him that were just part of his illusion that he created. It's fun trying to sift between fact and fiction and to try to work the timeline of all randomness of his life into a story, but daaaang is it exhausting sometimes!
What would you say is the #1 thing people get wrong about MJ? I honestly can't decide sometimes if the way people over-sexualize him or make him overly innocent is worse. He was obviously not this naive little man-child that the media, etc... like to make him out to be, but at the same time I find the narrative of him as an absolute dog hard to handle. I just think he was a normal man. One who was sheltered and lived a different life style, but who at the end of the day was a Normal. Man.
Another question that's weighed on my mind since I started reading/writing mjff: how do you think he'd feel about all of this? I'd like to think that he'd love to know that people still remember and adore him, and to an extent he'd probably enjoy the level of mystique his life still carries...but do you ever wonder if what we do could maybe be an invasion of privacy? I'm sure we all fall into the category of crazy fans at this point (lolololol) but I hope that he'd know that we do what we do just out of respect and admiration. It's a tough one for me sometimes.
The infantilization of him. He was not as naive and "perfect" as people think. He was wonderful in many ways, but he was also human.
I think he'd have mixed feelings. Very mixed feelings....and he'd be pretty weirded out in many instances.
Date: Feb 16, 2015 03:34 am Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
So my question is, in regards to Michael being drunk, when exactly was it? well before Prince and Paris were born? and while his occasional drinking may have been the case, I know he didn't make it a habit otherwise his liver would not have been in good health like the autopsy said if he truly was the alcoholic fics make him out to be..same goes for the pain meds..contrary to media belief he didn't do it to be a party animal or get high but for legit reasons and irresponsible doctors didn't warn him how addictive they were since they were so strong.
When it comes to diet I know he was vegetarian sometime after Thriller up until about Dangerous and from my understanding he came off the diet somewhat..and although he didn't touch red meat like that anymore according to his bodyguards he loved Big Macs so I can't say he gave it up altogether and that's the Michael I show..
I guess what I don't like/agree with is his flaws being exaggerated..like assuming that just because he cussed when frustrated/pissed off, (and we all know what an incredibly patient person he was so that would have taken a lot to tick him off) taking it to mean he was one of those who was always cussing, doing it for pleasure so one would think he had limited vocabulary..when he absolutely forbid his children to do it and he didn't like when Debbie was cussing so much..while he was indeed imperfect some fans forget that he was also one of a kind and a dare to be different type of person so he wasn't like "I'm doing this because everyone else is"..in other words, unique.
Well, he drank a fair amount in the early 80s before cleaning it up (as Brooke has alluded to). He drank more in the early 2000s (particularly leading up to the trial), and occassionally drank far too much during his time in the Near East. I believe he favored Crown Royale and Jack Daniels, but I could be off. There are different types of alcoholics - dependence vs abuse. I think it didn't help that he was a lightweight.
It also takes a fair amount for the liver to show damage. Some people can drink epic amounts for years....it varies by person.
He wasn't a party animal, LOL, I agree. I believe many doctors warned him about the pain meds, but since they then gave him meds...well....I still see that as an addiction. He knew it wasn't cool, especially after having sought treatment for it in the 90s. I want to be sure that the fact that that was an addiction and he VERY likely knew that, shouldn't be understated.
He became a vegetarian partially for skin reasons, I believe.
Date: Feb 16, 2015 02:23 am Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
Also, there is a video of Michael swearing in front of his mother. :)
..and looking pretty hot while doing so.
*slow sleazy smile*
LOL. That was a unique circumstance. His mother could/can be feisty when she has to be.
Date: Feb 15, 2015 11:34 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
Loved this @RedOne ... I dont understand the term 'writing canon" though, what does that mean?
I love my Michaels written to a seemingly true light. As in, a kind, lovely man, helpful to the detriment of himself yet incredibly flawed, could be a little immature (giving friends silent treatments), not helping himself in certain situations, being a bit corny (a lot corny) etc.
I hate portrayals of Michael as a womaniser and a cheat and someone who intentionally goes around hurting people and sleeping around and doing evil things. I know some people like that idea of Michael, but its just an idea and for me and what I like to read, it would never get me further than the intro.
I dont mind if timelines of real situations are off, I don't even mind if the Michael portrayal isnt so much a singer and entertainer, but there's a reason why we all read Michael fan fic and that's because we all have imaginative fantasies of who he is/was that we want to colour in to reality. That's probably why I like fic stories to be based on a more accurate MJ -- because when its not, it ceases to be about MJ and more about someone else that I cant reconcile with the one and only Michael Jackson.
Canon=what essentially happened in MJ's life, happens in the story. It's when someone tries to stick with reality as much as is possible.
I love your last paragraph. I agree.
Date: Feb 15, 2015 07:22 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
I've written a total of 4 Fics including the 2 I have posted here. The first two where more Canon oriented but l didn't write him as most fans like to think he was. Michael was funny, sassy, shady at times and VERY flirtatious. I chose to ramp up some of those characteristics a bit but stayed pretty close to his personality. Michael drank and got drunk. In fact there are pictures of him drunk out there. He cursed and if you believe what Lisa states about him he cursed like a sailor. Michael being those things does not subtract from the amazing human being he was in life.
Ive seen people actually hurt over him being portrayed as anything more than a Peter pan character. Michael always stated he was CHILDLIKE not CHILDISH and I like to think of him as a man. Full red blooded man. Was he a man whore? Maybe not but he wasn't as virginal as he liked to portray either and like you said Redone he did pursue at least one Married woman that we can notably attest to. I feel like there was at least one other one.
Sorry I got off topic lol but what I'm saying is I've explored all the aspects of Michael and I like writing the AU characters more. It's more creative freedom. Michael did many contradictory things in life. He was vegetarian yet he loved KFC. Lol. His quirks is what makes him even more interesting to write. Also people forget what a stanch business man he was that takes a very assertive attitude which he had. He was super nice but he wasn't as big a pushover as people might think. That's who I write. That Michael. With a little bit of spice added some times. Lol ;)
Research!!! It's the key to all!!!
Can't wait for the other installments in writing Michael.
More soon! <333
Agreed. Depending on who he was with, he cursed. There are also even videos of him drunk. Being a history nerd, this reminds me of the classic joke:
It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts. Here are the facts about the three candidates.
Candidate A: Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with an astrologist. He's had two mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.
Candidate B: He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.
Candidate C: He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian, doesn't smoke, only drinks an occasional beer and never cheated on his wife. Which of these candidates would be your choice?
And I do believe there was at least one other married conquest...that's not to say that many married women didn't pursue him.
Michael was an interesting business man, if his childhood candy-selling self was anything to go by. One with heart.
Date: Feb 15, 2015 07:09 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
I know alternative universe can be referred to as alternate reality or alternate universe..not to mention alternate timeline but with alternate reality a person might start off following the canon and change certain aspects when the time is right..like my TII related fic where Michael does not die or have respiratory/cardiac arrest is an example of AR..and AU is basically a different setting, different storyline(like on a show)..like if he was not famous or if he were a gangster/ dangerous criminal (based on films like BAD or Smooth Criminal ..or in a Supernatural fic if he is a villain going around talking about stealing people's souls that can be AU, too
I know, both terms can be confusing..but hope the explanation helps
Oh, you are talking about alternate history! Thank you for clarifying. That makes sense. At a certain point, I feel like the breakdown of these differences becomes overly pedantic, with alternate history simply becoming a subtype of A/U (as it becomes A/U).
Date: Feb 15, 2015 05:42 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
as someone who generally prefers AR, there are some AUs I tolerate..however the only AUs I see myself writing are the Supernatural ones or like Smooth Criminal based..
in my Betrayed Trust fic one might argue that me having Michael kick the Arvisos out when irl he was too nice to do that but at the same time I know having him be more assertive and firm can work depending on how it's done..I had him be calm but firm(like an I'm sorry, but this is how it's gonna be kind of way)..I also applaud him for being that way whenever the OG acts her shoesize instead of her age during an argument..
most agreed when certain OOC quirks added to him would be a slap in the face when you consider the sensitive spots..like what goes through my mind is why would someone portray him in that light, eg. a child molester because that would be like proving the naysayers right and if they decide to read it they would be like "see I told you so" and so one of my reasons for writing is for the thrill of vindicating him..and one of my biggest problems with slash fics because there's no evidence for it anywhere and it hurt him when people called him homosexual in real life..while he wasn't outwardly nasty to them he wasn't comfortable with it either..in fact there were a couple of accounts about men flirting with him and he wasn't having it..in fact he asked one of them when last he read his Bible..
I knew he did drink on certain occasions but I never heard of him getting drunk before..so it's news to me..considering how health conscious he was..and as for the cussing part I knew he did it particularly when upset/pissed off..but not like how some authors have him cussing for no good reason(that makes me cringe) and also have him cuss in front of his mom without batting an eyelash when he generally didn't like it
Question: How do you understand A/R as being different from A/U? My understanding is that they are the same. If you could link me to a source that says otherwise, I'd appreciate it, as every source I've seen refers to them as being interchangable terms. Now, there are different ways in which to make a story A/U.
Heads up - this was primarily focused on canon FF or within character FF. Next I'll talk more about OOC.
Slash is not my cup of tea. At the same time, I think we all do a disservice when we clump them into one group. I could see for one group - gay males who are attracted to MJ - as being okay. I think they write for the same reason heterosexual females write romance stories, and while that may have made Michael uncomfortable, Michael also had a number of gay male friends and knew that a good portion of his male fans were/are gay. What I can't even stand to think about, though, are those authors who try to come up with the "sickest" situations for Michael in their fanfics (I'm only slightly paraphrasing one of the authors on here who does just that). That just disgusts me.
Oh, he's been drunk in public and behind the scenes, before. Gibbs, Gest, the guy from Breaking Bad, various fans, etc have told stories. When things were tough, he, like many others, had certain vices. Michael was also very health concious, but had a crazy sweet tooth. He was human and not perfect. Now, I do agree with you about him swearing in front of his mother. I can only see that happening in a very AU and OOC context.
Date: Feb 15, 2015 05:42 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
I don't really plan on taking an attempt at writing a canon Michael fic. Like a true, historically acurate, on point take on his life... I'm not even sure I'm into those type of fics. I like more AUish types, but I'll read anything really.
Another good (even though it may or may not be 100% true) resource is watching interviews of other people talking about him. Out of all the interviews I've seen and I probably haven't even seen half or all of them. Michael didn't reveal that much of himself in any of them and he seemed so different than in like a more candid video of him. Like you can tell he's just playing a professional role he's not being his real self. There are some celebs that have some cool/funny stories that could help grasp his personality a little more.
Lisa, though I dislike her, kind of laid some of his flaws out there. If Michael really did tell her look either you have my babies or Debbie will... That's a major asshole move on his part LOL. You don't say that to someone you supposedly love even if she did betray him by not giving him what he wanted right away like he promised. Kind of lets you know the kind of person he might turn into if you rub him the wrong way... She also exposed how he dealt with some of their conflicts (icing her out/disappearing for weeks). Things to keep in mind when writing conflicts in fics I think...
I've got a major OCC fic I've kind of just kept to myself for a while called The God Complex. I feel like its going to rub a lot of people the wrong way so I'll probably hold off on posting it for a while. It'll probably turn out to be my best fic since I've written it and re-written it and have been like perfecting.
I think pure canon is challenging and not super interesting. Now close to canon + an OG? MUCH more entertaining to read (think wonderfultonight's, skywriter's, Carol's, phoenix's, etc).
Agreed about some of the interviews. There are some really good ones out there (I loved one with Wayne Dyer's daughter). Still, Lisa also lied on multiple occassions and really threw some mud at him while he was alive...only to admit to her own vices when he died (e.g. going on vacas with her ex, lying to MJ about birth control, etc). I've heard of very different takes on Michael from the people I know who met him. The reason I am less prone to rely on interviews is for one reason: when things are written, multiple people review them and it is frozen as a document that people can contest or support. In contrast, when things are spoken, fewer people are likely to actually openly comment on, challenge, or question. Well, unless it's testimony before a lawyer and/or judge. People say a lot more stuff than they'd be willing to write down in black and white.
LOL. You've got me intrigued.
Date: Feb 15, 2015 05:32 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
Michael deserved to be put on pedestal.. That's my opinion and I am sticking with it... lol
In what way? To what extent? I think the greatest gift that he never truly got and always wanted, was to be treated like a human.
Date: Feb 15, 2015 04:57 pm Title: Portraying Michael: The basics
Once again, I am so glad that you decided to post this. One of the things that really hit home with me was the glorification. I finished a few months back and the readers were pissed with me, simply because Michael didn't end up with the main girl. And I had perfect reason for him not to. In the story, I didn't portray Michael to be a bad person. He wasn't the best like many readers portray him to be like but he wasn't the worst either. He tried to pursue a relationship with the MG while he was still married to her sister, he constantly screwed her around and made her his second best. The MG later found another guy who would make her his first and only and long story short they ended up together. Some readers were highly upset, some even stopped reading the story half way through and one reader even went as far as to tell me they hated my story. No matter how much dirt Michael did in the story involving the MG, the readers always found a way to justify his actions and hardly ever acknowledged that he was wrong just because he was Michael. The MG was usually always at fault and was hated in the end for not choosing Michael over the other guy.
It was as if the readers were so infatuated with Michael, they felt he could do no wrong, in real life or in fiction.
It honestly annoys me when fans put Michael on a pedestal as if he a saint. They act as if Michael was totally innocent and free of flaws. Like you said, the man was human. But that seems to be a fact that some fans forget
Readers have a HARD time seeing Michael not get the girl. I speak from experience of being one of those readers in several stories. I can only think of one or two stories when I was actually like "No. OG, back away from Michael. If you end up with him, you are a moron". In those, that wasn't the intention, but I rather like that you didn't do that. It isn't as romantic of an ending, but it is a healthier choice for the OG.
With regards to your reader, it could be that she's been in unhealthy romantic relationships and/or was brought up in some way to accept that kind of treatment. I do think that is the case in many of these stories.....sometimes it's hard to spot emotional abuse when it is happening. Add to that, the allure of Michael, and many seem to turn a blind eye.
Fans....shoot, it reminds me of when Oprah asked MJ if he was a virgin or when Sawyer asked if he and Lisa had sex. I remember watching that live and even as a kid going, "No shit Sherlock". Many people had a hard time acknowledging him as a man, first and foremost.